Ireland's Pit Bull Terrier Association (IPBTA)
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diet and conditioning

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:44 pm

celticpitbulls wrote: [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

stop shooting dogs or ill report you to the relevent authorities ye terrorist.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:59 pm

Savage wrote:@united

im not gonna get into the rights an wrongs of that type of conditioning united but what is wrong with general fitness in a dog?

i hard walk my girl a lot. her stamina is huge, she doesnt wind out and she'll go all day. she's a very fast and fairly strong dog that wont quit until she cant stand up.. and then she gets her second wind. vet says she's as fit as a fiddle and as healthy as can be.

what advantages will the conditioning you're talking about have for her when the most she's ever going to do is a bit of agility or mountain climbing?

as i said im not looking for an arguement on the subject, just looking to understand your point of view.

Can I talk here?
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:01 pm

lol!

of course!
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by A cervi on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:16 pm

lol

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:54 pm

dont just tease us like that harry lol!
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:00 am

Savage wrote:@united

im not gonna get into the rights an wrongs of that type of conditioning united but what is wrong with general fitness in a dog?

i hard walk my girl a lot. her stamina is huge, she doesnt wind out and she'll go all day. she's a very fast and fairly strong dog that wont quit until she cant stand up.. and then she gets her second wind. vet says she's as fit as a fiddle and as healthy as can be.

what advantages will the conditioning you're talking about have for her when the most she's ever going to do is a bit of agility or mountain climbing?

as i said im not looking for an arguement on the subject, just looking to understand your point of view.

I had 1,500+ words typed out, but decided there was no point in posting it.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:05 am

why? im interested to hear the reasoning be it pro or con.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:08 am

Savage wrote:why? im interested to hear the reasoning be it pro or con.

Because it wasn't going to change anyone's views. It was just going to be scanned over by everyone on here and ignored.

SO YEAH.

Back to my movie... Shitty (bold word) bog internet :/
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:11 am

its not about changing views though is it. its just about discussion. im very interested in the reasoning behind that kinda conditioning. ive no interest in talking about the fighting part but united made the point that the conditioning is good for the dog, others argued the opposite. its an interesting read.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:14 am

Well that is what my post was going to be about...

SUMMARY VERSION-

Look at Sports stars, they stay in peak condition all year round and are much better examples of what a person should look like than someone who walks around the block a couple of times.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:16 am

but they're also competing at olympic level.

and i think the argument is what peak condition actually is and what its needed for. and peak condition for an track athlete is a very different thing to peak condition for a cage fighter.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by united on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:41 am

Savage wrote:@united

im not gonna get into the rights an wrongs of that type of conditioning united but what is wrong with general fitness in a dog?

i hard walk my girl a lot. her stamina is huge, she doesnt wind out and she'll go all day. she's a very fast and fairly strong dog that wont quit until she cant stand up.. and then she gets her second wind. vet says she's as fit as a fiddle and as healthy as can be.

what advantages will the conditioning you're talking about have for her when the most she's ever going to do is a bit of agility or mountain climbing?

as i said im not looking for an arguement on the subject, just looking to understand your point of view.

Who's arguing? I don't say there owt wrong with a healthy condition, it's how I generally keep my dog's. But healthy is not what I consider a fit condition. As I said the more you learn on the subject and the harder you work at shaping your dog. The fitter and healthier your dog will be. Which can only be of benefit to your dog's well being. Also the fitter she is the better she'll be able to perform in what task's you want her to.

Conditioning is getting your dog fit that is all, no different type's as you put it or no one would ever walk their dog's. There are many opinion's as to what constitute's a fit dog as there are way's to accumplishing it. The real understanding come's in knowing at what point your dog is at his optimum weight where he has both full strengh and stamina.

There are many vet's that don't know what fit dog is, I've seen two have a real heated arguement on the matter when I took a gyp in. I'm sure one thought all should resemble hippo's or pot bellied pig's.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:52 am

probably no one argueing but these discussions can get out of hand so i wanted to make my intent clear. after the reponses before, it could easily have been perceived as baiting.

my personal opinion is that the kind of condition you're talking about is a little too close to the edge. ive seen dogs like that and i often wonder would a little extra fat not be healthier. dont get me wrong im no fan of the pot bellied dog, i love to see a ripped dog but with just the right amount of body fat aswell.

but then my dog isnt competing at any level worth talking about and the amount of time and work that goes into that kind of condition really isnt a viable option for me. as long as she has good stamina and drive and is a decent weight with good tone then im happy.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:00 am

Savage wrote:probably no one argueing but these discussions can get out of hand so i wanted to make my intent clear. after the reponses before, it could easily have been perceived as baiting.

my personal opinion is that the kind of condition you're talking about is a little too close to the edge. ive seen dogs like that and i often wonder would a little extra fat not be healthier. dont get me wrong im no fan of the pot bellied dog, i love to see a ripped dog but with just the right amount of body fat aswell.

but then my dog isnt competing at any level worth talking about and the amount of time and work that goes into that kind of condition really isnt a viable option for me. as long as she has good stamina and drive and is a decent weight with good tone then im happy.

What purpose does the body fat serve?

Look at the dogs that have won the last two IPBTA Confirmation shows, both of the winners were bitches with as close to 0% BF as I've ever seen, especially Ms Bowie, who won just a few weeks ago.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:11 am

every living animal (humans included) needs a small amount of body fat harry. there are very important health reasons for this. fat protects the vital organs, it gives us heat that muscle cant and it also acts as an energy back up incase we cant eat. if your dog is sick and wont eat, its body will start to consume fat to keep it alive. thats why a sick dog loses weight.

and as far as the conformation shows are concerned, some people would have made different choices. it was down to a particular judges preference on the day. not right or wrong, just a preference for a type of dog.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:17 am

Which in the judges opinion, a man who has the APBT and SBT for a long time, they leaner dogs were the best of the bunch. You can read into that what you want, but I think it shows that even in something as insignificant as a show, having the better conditioned dog helps him get better results.

ALSO, conditioning is really a great hobby/pastime. I'm midway through my second week off school and have been shaping up Eddie a bit, it's very enjoyable and I can't wait until he's more mature and I can really work him.

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(It's a screenshot of a video so not the best quality, but I'll have more vids soon)
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:22 am

i dont disagree with conditioning at all. im just questioning the reasons to take it to a certain level when that particular conditioning served a purpose thats no longer valid or wanted (i would hope).

and ive seen judges with plenty of experience bypass 0% body fat dogs to go for slightly fatter ones on plenty of occasions. a judges opinion, experienced or not is still only his opinion and it has been argued by equally experienced people.

now just to be clear, when i say slightly fatter im talking dogs like hank. he has that little bit of body fat that i would consider to be healthier than ms bowie.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:38 am

WEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLL

While I'm not saying that Hank is in anyway unhealthy. But I think that Ms. Bowie was in better condition on the day and was both fitter and healthier.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:43 am

i dont know if you've ever seen 'capone' harry. he was a UKC best of breed and possibly one of my favourite pits ive ever seen.

personally i woulda kept the ears but thats another days argument lol!

he's conditioned to perfection in my eyes but yet still retains a small amount of body fat that i would consider healthy.

just thought you'd be interested in seeing him

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:47 am

Harry wrote:WEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLL

While I'm not saying that Hank is in anyway unhealthy. But I think that Ms. Bowie was in better condition on the day and was both fitter and healthier.

ok but thats ignoring the fact that an animal needs body fat to be healthy. if you take away that need then maybe you're right but it is a physiological fact and it cant be dismissed. if you ignore it you're putting the less important visual aspect above medical facts.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:57 am

I don't really like UKC dogs, I prefer ADBA dogs.

The dog in the picture is not what I would call 'conditioned' he looks very "soft" if that is the right word to use. Ms. Bowie and John's Bullseye are the two dogs I've seen where I've thought "This dog couldn't look any better"

I love the look of your little Staffy, Barry. I think she looks very good. But coming up to a show like the IPBTA is having in a few weeks, I'd love to do some intense cardio with her and some strength work on alternate days to really get the shoulders popping on her and her stomach tucked even better than she already is. That's just what I'd like to do with your dog as an example, I think she'd look really well.
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:02 am

you should google 'french ring sport' and see capone in action. that dog is in seriously top condition. he's not just a fancy show dog by any means. dont let a relaxed pose fool you.

to be honest ive no interest in getting dolly beyond where she gets to herself. she had a shitty first 2 years of her life and i dont expect her to be anything more than a pet. we'll do agility for fun and enter shows for the craic but i'm never going to push her to the extreme :)
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:06 am

heres capone in action

that to me is a pit in top condition, competing (and winning) at world class levels in a sport pits dont generlly excel at.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by united on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:07 am

Well untied speaking from some1 that does do events with their dog i can tell you When you talk about pit dogs and dogs doing events it is very different, some work their dogs for power and some work for speed, there's also an in between and other areas involved when getting to know what weight your dog is at his best. He could be 1 pound over or under and that makes a huge difference, my point united although you think its similar to the keep of some1 conditioning a dog for other reasons its far from it and maybe if you gave it a try you'd know this.

The bottom line is, if you were To keep a dog in the condition of a pit dog and putting it threw a keep that's designed for 8 to 10 weeks and do this for a period of 8 months of the year you would kill your freaking dog. Now go and ask any dog man that![/qu

I really wish you wouldn't try to put word's into my mouth. Misquoting people is what you have a habit of doing. At least twice now and it take's thing's out of context of what the thread was.

For any show a person condition's a dog for. The more work and effort a person put's into it the fitter the dog will be. All dog's have an optimum weight where they can perform at their best be it pulling weight , jumping over thing's or racing.

Who said you can't keep a dog at it's ideal weight? I think it's was Maffei that wrote he kept one at weight all it's adult life.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:13 am

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Gr Ch Lukane-

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These are all great looking show dogs IMO.[img]


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