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diet and conditioning

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by cs on Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:59 pm

united...Would that be simply down to cost? If you were trying to feed a yard full of dogs on a raw diet, would it not get too expensive? Possibly too time consuming?

I dont understand what naming dogs would do? It would just prove that some do fine on dry and others do as good on raw?

Its not impossible that those who had the "well known dogs" just said they only fed red mills? Unless you watched what they fed for every meal then how would be possible to know?
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by theoldgit on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:32 pm

[quote="celticpitbulls"]lol anytime john lol

Thats a great tip about the fruit, what would your choice of fruit be be john?

Also tomatoes, are they good for dogs?

[

tinned toms are best,bannanas are the one with our dogs,i am not getting into the science of it all its just how we do it....LOL XX

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Harry on Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:53 pm

DECANIO wrote:Seen 1 of the cali jack vids before, in work at mo so when i get a chance i'll get a look at the rest of em

this is website of girl who lives local & supplies raw, obviously prices reflect the fact that she has to earn a wage & are higher than if you sourced food yourself but there's a good variety there, won't let me post external link for 7 days so i'll put up link after that

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Here it is Dec

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by cs on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:25 pm

When i feed fruit, I have always fed apples, pineapple, bannana and orange. I have read not to feed citrus fruits but mine liked orange. Stay away from raisins and grapes...they are supposed to be toxic. I have never fed tinned tomatoes, I generally feed tinned mackeral, pilchards or sardines which are in tomotoe sauce. same thing really but killing two birds with one stone.

Vegetables need to blitzed, i fed carrots, green beans, cabbage, spinach etc



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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by DECANIO on Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:36 pm



Cheers Harry, this girls close to you too tommy so might be worth your while to check her out
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by tommy1985 on Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:45 pm

Whereabouts is she based? Had a look at the online shop but is there a local shop?

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by united on Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:07 pm

cs wrote:united...Would that be simply down to cost? If you were trying to feed a yard full of dogs on a raw diet, would it not get too expensive? Possibly too time consuming?

I dont understand what naming dogs would do? It would just prove that some do fine on dry and others do as good on raw?

Its not impossible that those who had the "well known dogs" just said they only fed red mills? Unless you watched what they fed for every meal then how would be possible to know?

This thread is about diet during conditioning, not one on maitenance diet's, which is all I've seen from you so far. Naming dog's that have been conditioned and won on a certain diet, is evidence a diet actually work's.

I know exactly what the dog's were fed as they were fed in front of me. If you know anything about conditioning then you just how much changing a diet (even for one day at the peak) during a keep can throw a dog well out of sync. And I don't think any would have been that stupid to ruin their dog's.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by cs on Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:09 pm

In all honesty... the lad clearly says he's new to it all and wants to hear some ideas. Im pretty sure what he calls conditioning and what you call conditioning will be two entirely different things. He just wants help to get the dog in shape, i dont think he's looking into putting the dog through a keep etc.

The way the original posts reads to me is, he wants some help and guidance on the basics of getting his dog in shape.

I might be way off but thats what it says to me, its titled "diet and conditioning"
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by cs on Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:53 pm

"As for what to feed, you want to keep your high-protein kibble as your base bulk of the diet. This is what you adjust (adding more or less) depending on whether your dog drops (or gains) weight. The supplements, meats, rice, and vegetables are what remain constant, you simply adjust the amount of kibble to keep your dog’s weight constant. Start at about 1½ cups of kibble for a 40lb dog, adjusting up or down based on what your scale tells you. You want to keep him at about 2 lb over show weight, throughout his keep, except for the last two weeks"


MEAL

• CANIDAE Kibble (1½ Cups) Adjust this, more or less, to keep the wt. constant.
(http://www.petpointe.com/)
• Beef Stew Chunks + Chicken Gizzards (Livers/Hearts) + Jack Mackerel (¼ lb.)
• Cheddar/Jack Cheeses (3 oz.)
• Long Grain Natural Brown Rice (½ cup)
• Collard Greens/Mustard Greens/Turnip Greens/Baby Spinach (½ cup)
• AMINO PLEX 5000 (1 Tsp./25 lbs.) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• DMG 2000 (1 Tsp./40 lbs.) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• K-PLEX (As directed) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• K-EASE (1-2 Tablets/40 lb, after workout, only if needed) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• MSM (1000 mg.) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Coenzyme Q-10 (60 mg.) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Inosine (As directed) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Tribulus (675 mg., morning and evening) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Flax Oil (2-3 Tbsp.)


That is a few paragraphs from a "well known" keep and feed schedule, so this guy is clearly feeding one of those "fad diets"
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by tommy1985 on Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:18 pm

Wud be interesting to see the dog kept on that diet

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by theoldgit on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:09 pm

i feel at this point that i must say,i have at the moment 7 dogs some are house dogs and some are out on the yard every one is different [even litter mates] with differing needs and diets,some people love the bullys for their good nature as pets and companions,some for their tenacity at given tasks,tommy started by asking advice of what would be best for him and the well being of his dog,there is a lot of good tips and advice coming up on this thread from every one.so tommy should maybe take it all onboard and do what is best to suit his needs................this is my opinion only,best of luck with your dog tommy,look forward to meeting you......regards the bullseye family

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by united on Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:52 pm

cs wrote:"As for what to feed, you want to keep your high-protein kibble as your base bulk of the diet. This is what you adjust (adding more or less) depending on whether your dog drops (or gains) weight. The supplements, meats, rice, and vegetables are what remain constant, you simply adjust the amount of kibble to keep your dog’s weight constant. Start at about 1½ cups of kibble for a 40lb dog, adjusting up or down based on what your scale tells you. You want to keep him at about 2 lb over show weight, throughout his keep, except for the last two weeks"


MEAL

• CANIDAE Kibble (1½ Cups) Adjust this, more or less, to keep the wt. constant.
(http://www.petpointe.com/)
• Beef Stew Chunks + Chicken Gizzards (Livers/Hearts) + Jack Mackerel (¼ lb.)
• Cheddar/Jack Cheeses (3 oz.)
• Long Grain Natural Brown Rice (½ cup)
• Collard Greens/Mustard Greens/Turnip Greens/Baby Spinach (½ cup)
• AMINO PLEX 5000 (1 Tsp./25 lbs.) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• DMG 2000 (1 Tsp./40 lbs.) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• K-PLEX (As directed) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• K-EASE (1-2 Tablets/40 lb, after workout, only if needed) (http://www.thomasveterinarydrug.com/)
• MSM (1000 mg.) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Coenzyme Q-10 (60 mg.) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Inosine (As directed) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Tribulus (675 mg., morning and evening) (http://www.bodybuilding.com/)
• Flax Oil (2-3 Tbsp.)


That is a few paragraphs from a "well known" keep and feed schedule, so this guy is clearly feeding one of those "fad diets"

How is it a fad diet when it's kibble based? As for the author how does he know it work's when the only time he conditioned a dog it lost? He may write good advice in his books but when it come's to conditioning I would be looking elsewhere.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Philly Mc00 on Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:11 pm

United with all due respect were not interested in hearing about dogs winning or losing on this forum, there are plenty of other forums for that talk. Your input is appreciated but at the end of the day we are pet owners here trying to promote the positive image of the breed, so if you could just leave that chat out. Cheers.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by cs on Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:42 pm

United...you wrote:

I know of a good few well known dog's that were fed redmill's throughout their live's and during their keep's. But can anyone name any that were fed on any of these fad diets?

again to me and maybe I have misunderstood this...but to me it reads that you were only feeding redmills? To me its saying anyone who mixes meat / raw / fruit/ etc is feeding a "fad diet"
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by united on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:07 am

[quote="Philly Mc00"]United with all due respect were not interested in hearing about dogs winning or losing on this forum, there are plenty of other forums for that talk. Your input is appreciated but at the end of the day we are pet owners here trying to promote the positive image of the breed, so if you could just leave that chat out. Cheers.[/quote

Phllly this thread is about diet and conditioning in relation to the breed. And the best people we can learn from about the subject are those who are historically considered the best conditioners of APBT's. If I wanted to learn about conditioning a Greyhound I wouldn't ask someone who never trained one, I'd ask or look for info from someone who had a winning record at doing so, and it's the same with these dog's.

if people wern't interested in winning or famous dog's from the past then none of us would ever learn anything about the breed.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Philly Mc00 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:48 am

United this thread is about a pet owner looking to get his dog into decent shape not condition it for the pit. Most pet owners on here look to get there dogs into a fit sustainable condition, now nearly every post you put up has reference to match dogs and dogs winning or loosing, I appreciate that the keeps of the experienced and successful dogmen are a good guide line but it would be impractical for a pet owner to condition there dog to the point of pit fit because a pit dog reaches that weight and level of conditioning for one or two days of a year.

Getting back to your post about dogs "winning" and "losing" I still don't see why you find it neccisarry to constantly tell us about who's dog won or lost when it's just as easy to say they had success with a particular keep or they had good ones or whatever, I know we're all adults here but it's called tact mate, you should try using it.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by celticpitbulls on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:38 am

[quote="united"]
Philly Mc00 wrote:United with all due respect were not interested in hearing about dogs winning or losing on this forum, there are plenty of other forums for that talk. Your input is appreciated but at the end of the day we are pet owners here trying to promote the positive image of the breed, so if you could just leave that chat out. Cheers.[/quote

Phllly this thread is about diet and conditioning in relation to the breed. And the best people we can learn from about the subject are those who are historically considered the best conditioners of APBT's. If I wanted to learn about conditioning a Greyhound I wouldn't ask someone who never trained one, I'd ask or look for info from someone who had a winning record at doing so, and it's the same with these dog's.

if people wern't interested in winning or famous dog's from the past then none of us would ever learn anything about the breed.
its a different type of condition our dogs should be in united, if say 4 instance i used 1 of these keep's with my dog he wouldn't last very long as its a fitness that need's 2 be maintained threw the spring to start of winter. There is different keeps 2 suit different things such as conformation, sports and others. As phil pointed out using or promoting these keep's 2 members here could end up in some possibly damaging their dogs. Just like u said to be a winner u got 2 have that knowledge along with a good dog, we also have winners in what we do and figuring out whats the best keep 4 that 2 maintain a healthy dog for all year round competing.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by united on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:59 pm

Fitness is fitness whatever the activity an owner condition's his dog for. The more time and effort an owner puts into conditioning his dog and learning about and understanding the subject, the fitter and healthier that dog will be throughout it's life. Celtic have you actually tried a proper keep on your dog? If you did you might find that your dog's every day level of fitness and health is superior than what you keep it at now. Check the record most show and weightpull winner's (Is this the wrong word? ) in the US are dog's that have been conditioned based on keep's put out by dogmen.

Philly Why is it impractical for any owner to condition their dog to pit fitness? By doing so it would give any true breed student a better understanding and appriciation of the effort those people went through to develop, maintain and improve the breed through the decades. More importantly it would give them greater knowledge on the health & well being of their own dog's.

As for saying winning and losing I don't see what the big deal is. As I said earlier it's evidence a diet work's in a conditioning program in the context of this thread nothing more nothing less. I'm afraid winning and losing will alway's be part of the vocabulary of the breed wheather you like it or not. I talk straight not in riddle's as some member's that may not understand what's being said.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Philly Mc00 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:56 pm

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, we were talking about a sustainable level of fitness and a pit fit dog is not a practical weight or level of fitness to try and sustain for 7 or 8 months.

I don't have an issue with anybody putting a dog through a keep for a show but I do believe it is an impractical level of fitness to try and maintain, all it would take is the slightest little virus and there's a good chance you'll lose your dog.

Have you ever put yourself through a really hard training camp and cut a load of weight? Just out of interest.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by celticpitbulls on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:49 pm

united wrote:Fitness is fitness whatever the activity an owner condition's his dog for. The more time and effort an owner puts into conditioning his dog and learning about and understanding the subject, the fitter and healthier that dog will be throughout it's life. Celtic have you actually tried a proper keep on your dog? If you did you might find that your dog's every day level of fitness and health is superior than what you keep it at now. Check the record most show and weightpull winner's (Is this the wrong word? ) in the US are dog's that have been conditioned based on keep's put out by dogmen.



Well untied speaking from some1 that does do events with their dog i can tell you When you talk about pit dogs and dogs doing events it is very different, some work their dogs for power and some work for speed, there's also an in between and other areas involved when getting to know what weight your dog is at his best. He could be 1 pound over or under and that makes a huge difference, my point united although you think its similar to the keep of some1 conditioning a dog for other reasons its far from it and maybe if you gave it a try you'd know this.

The bottom line is, if you were To keep a dog in the condition of a pit dog and putting it threw a keep that's designed for 8 to 10 weeks and do this for a period of 8 months of the year you would kill your freaking dog. Now go and ask any dog man that!



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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:57 pm

celticpitbulls wrote:

The bottom line is, if you were To keep a dog in the condition of a pit dog and putting it threw a keep that's designed for 8 to 10 weeks and do this for a period of 8 months of the year you would kill your freaking dog. Now go and ask any dog man that!

and thats exactly why its designed for such a short period..

why are a lot of threads going down this road in the last few days Question
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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by celticpitbulls on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:17 pm

I think its because some people think there's some kind of copywrite on the breed and that having a different opinion or relationship with these dogs or getting to know them that bit different is just not possible... Wink

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by united on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:20 pm

Philly Mc00 wrote:Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, we were talking about a sustainable level of fitness and a pit fit dog is not a practical weight or level of fitness to try and sustain for 7 or 8 months.

I don't have an issue with anybody putting a dog through a keep for a show but I do believe it is an impractical level of fitness to try and maintain, all it would take is the slightest little virus and there's a good chance you'll lose your dog.

Have you ever put yourself through a really hard training camp and cut a load of weight? Just out of interest.

Having a pit fit dog is a much better starting point to maintain general fitness over a prolonged period of time. Than what your doing now and calling fit, plus it easier to control a dog's weight and all round fitness as he gain's the weight he'll naturally put back on.

if you knew owt you'd know that fit dog's are more resilliant to illness than other dog's. So the chance's of a dog dying through contracting a virus is actually lessened not increased which you've just implied.

Yes I have conditioned dog's down to their idea weight's, all of my dog's. As it's the only way to really learn, umderstand and appriciate the effort previous generation's have put into the breed. Plus I know my individual dog's alot better than what I otherwise would.

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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by Savage on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:29 pm

@united

im not gonna get into the rights an wrongs of that type of conditioning united but what is wrong with general fitness in a dog?

i hard walk my girl a lot. her stamina is huge, she doesnt wind out and she'll go all day. she's a very fast and fairly strong dog that wont quit until she cant stand up.. and then she gets her second wind. vet says she's as fit as a fiddle and as healthy as can be.

what advantages will the conditioning you're talking about have for her when the most she's ever going to do is a bit of agility or mountain climbing?

as i said im not looking for an arguement on the subject, just looking to understand your point of view.


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Re: diet and conditioning

Post by celticpitbulls on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:38 pm

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