Ireland's Pit Bull Terrier Association (IPBTA)
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Anybody else have this problem?

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Re: Anybody else have this problem?

Post by celticpitbulls on Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:42 am

Harry wrote:Question 2:

Would you trust the Pit off lead the same as the Lab (with other dogs)

Harry if the pit in question was well socialized then yes i would trust the pit not to start a fight, on the other hand i would be more likely to be certain that the other dogs was not going to start trouble with my pit because if other dogs lets say like in a dog park was to get a little aggressive then like all dogs we cant be 100% that they wont react and fight back, with the pit bull i wouldn't put it in that situation because although my pit might not start it they most certainly wont back down, if he gets going he/she could cause a lot of damage to another dog or could even kill it, so for that reason alone i dont think pits should be off leash around a number of dogs out in public its like putting a collie in a field with a load of sheep and not expecting the collie to heard, i understand some of you might not agree with me but with all due respect thats the truth.
we need to understand that the pit bull is a fantastic dog all round but we must also understand what they were bred for and be very much aware of it when it comes to other peoples dogs.

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Re: Anybody else have this problem?

Post by YENALED on Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:08 am

Harry wrote:Can I just ask this,

You buy two puppies, one Pitbull and one Labrador, they're both born the same day, you get both on the same day. You do the same training with both everyday.

Who really thinks the 2 dogs would end up the same?

Harry you must be careful not to confuse character with temperament. IMO that is the only thing that separates ALL dogs no matter what breed. I also believe that it is highly likely that you wouldn't treat the 2 dogs the same. By that I don't mean you would necessarily be harder on the Pit Bull but it is likely that you would have to be quick of the mark when correcting it. A friend made a remark today that made me think.... Hank has lost all of his puppy traits over the past few months and is very well mannered when people come in. He almost cowers when I stand in his path and quietly makes his way back to his box. I said to my friend you would think I had been beating him the way he behaves he almost looks afraid of me. Not once have I ever had to reprimand him in this way but I still felt a bit guilty and said so. she said "no its just that you have been on his case since he arrived".... I was a little unsure how to take that remark but maybe thats what Hank needed. I never let him get away with anything and always allowed Delilah to back me up when I needed it. I now have a little pitty that worships the ground I walk on and I have to be honest the feeling is mutual.

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Re: Anybody else have this problem?

Post by Harry on Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:54 am

I think the best way to say it was the way Sonata said it before ''These dogs have pedigree qualities which are impossible to forget''

Something else I've heard that I always use when around APBT's is to never trust them not to fight.

It is my opinion that you should never trust an APBT not to fight, but here in Ireland the dogs the general public have in most circumstances, do not qualify as APBT's the majority of most people's ''Pits'' are dog's with no papers and a very questionable heritage. Most have not been used for their original purpose for many generations and have been crossed with calmer breeds of dog. So many of these dogs you would have less problems with as they are very diluted from their ancestors.

It is the same for the Kennel Club SBT also IMO. They have been bred for 50 years plus to try and get rid of the Dog Aggression. Think of it like this: The GSD was created as a sheep dog, nowadays most lines have been bred for other purposes, so you don't find many GSD's with much herding instinct when compared to say a Border Collie or similar. This theory can IMO be carried over to APBT vs. SBT, the Staff being the GSD in this equation and the APBT being the Collie. You will still find Staffs with DA but most have very little and are trustworthy.

This is one of the main reasons edging me towards a Staff over a APBT, I want to be able to learn from a more forgiving animal, where the thresholds are more flexible. I think the real game-bred APBT is a world apart from all other dog breeds (except maybe a game-bred Staff)

Most of the members here will never have such problems, because of how your dogs are bred. But I just wanted to say what my philosophy on these animals, I don't like when people say that APBT's are just the same as any other dog with the right socialisation etc etc.

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Re: Anybody else have this problem?

Post by celticpitbulls on Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:47 pm

Harry wrote:I think the best way to say it was the way Sonata said it before ''These dogs have pedigree qualities which are impossible to forget''

Something else I've heard that I always use when around APBT's is to never trust them not to fight.

harry that goes for all breeds but we just need to be that bit more aware if it happens to be a pit due to the upper-hand the breed would have over other dogs..

It is my opinion that you should never trust an APBT not to fight, but here in Ireland the dogs the general public have in most circumstances, do not qualify as APBT's the majority of most people's ''Pits'' are dog's with no papers and a very questionable heritage. Most have not been used for their original purpose for many generations and have been crossed with calmer breeds of dog. So many of these dogs you would have less problems with as they are very diluted from their ancestors.

There are lots of pits in this country that have come from certain stock and sold to the public, most of the public have never kept peds when breeding as they have bred for in my opinion all the wrong reasons, for cash, for bigger heads, for certain colours and looks, the pit was never bred for any of these reasons but it doesn't take away the fact that they are pure bred dogs but with no peds, also just because clam dogs are bred to each other this makes no difference when it comes to their ability's when challenged, ie a game bred dog is surprisingly not meant to be aggressive, they are confidant along with sound temperament, dog men bred in that manner. if you look at some of the famous bloodlines out there some came from scattered bred dogs meaning they had no peds, what im saying here is although some of the treats of the original APBT my not be in all pits this does not take away the fact that there is not many breeds of dog out there that would stand a chance against 1 in a scuffle game bred or not, they were bred to grip and hold, they are extremely powerful for their size and most are very determent in caricature, this is what separates them from other breeds,

as you know i dont like these kind of topics on the forum but if it is going to be of an educational purpose and some here can understand whats being said and learn from it then i suppose we should let it go ahead.

lets say other breeds such as GSD AND LAB gets into a scuffle 1 will submit the scuffle might last 2,3, maybe 4 minutes and its over, if you have a pit regardless of the way its being bred in the same situation with 1 of these breeds there is a high % the other dog could be killed if the owner is not aware of the breed they own or unaware how to stop it, just like i said before prevention is the best cure so try keeping your pits or staffys out of them kind of situations because they do have the upper-hand when it comes to other dogs.


It is the same for the Kennel Club SBT also IMO. They have been bred for 50 years plus to try and get rid of the Dog Aggression. Think of it like this: The GSD was created as a sheep dog, nowadays most lines have been bred for other purposes, so you don't find many GSD's with much herding instinct when compared to say a Border Collie or similar. This theory can IMO be carried over to APBT vs. SBT, the Staff being the GSD in this equation and the APBT being the Collie. You will still find Staffs with DA but most have very little and are trustworthy.


LOL HARRY WHEN DID THE KENNEL CLUB EVER DO ANYTHING GOOD WITH ANY BREED

This is one of the main reasons edging me towards a Staff over a APBT, I want to be able to learn from a more forgiving animal, where the thresholds are more flexible. I think the real game-bred APBT is a world apart from all other dog breeds (except maybe a game-bred Staff)


Again harry you are getting a dog for different reasons, you want 1 to compete in positive sport activity's and as a buddy, again i will say never underestimate their capability's if faced with a challenge from other dogs regardless of how they are bred, yes there is a minority that will just not retaliate i have seen this but the majority will if taunted enough.

Most of the members here will never have such problems, because of how your dogs are bred. But I just wanted to say what my philosophy on these animals, I don't like when people say that APBT's are just the same as any other dog with the right socialisation etc etc.

harry the pit bull is just a dog, all breeds were bred for a specific propose, they are made of the same stuff, they are loyal loving clowns and an all round sporting dog, its not the dogs that is the problem they can be just as easy to own than any breed with the rite ownership.

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Re: Anybody else have this problem?

Post by Harry on Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:09 pm

The Kennel Club = Staff never being banned in UK... Fairly good IMO
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Re: Anybody else have this problem?

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