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DOG PARKS????????????

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DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:19 pm

If you enjoy off-leash dog parks, you don't want to hear this. But I am going to tell you anyway. If you choose to become the owner of a Pit Bull, your dog park days are almost surely over, Accidental dogfights in off-leash parks are common, but when a Pit Bull is involved, they are headlines. Following Pit Bull Golden Rule #1 "NEVER trust your pit bull not to fight", you can see why off-leash parks are a very bad idea for our breed. As a Pit Bull owner, you have certain responsibilities. Your responsibility to your dog (to keep him/her out of trouble), your responsibility to other dog owners (to keep their dogs safe from your dog), and your responsibility to your breed (to keep your dog OUT of negative headlines). Even pit bulls that have never exhibited dog aggression may fight back if approached by the wrong dog in an aggressive manner. I will repeat this for you. As the owner of a pit bull, any fight will always be your fault, no matter who started it.

WHAT IS SOCIALIZATION?

Socialization means introducing your dog to people, and to a lesser extent, to dogs and/or other animals. It is extremely important to socialize a pup of any breed with people, but be sure that the pup's experiences are ALWAYS positive. The pup should meet all kinds of adults and as many respectful children as possible. Socialization with people should be part of your dog's training for his/her entire life. Relegating a dog to the backyard or keeping it chained 24/7 can lead to a real disaster. If you are not willing to socialize and train a dog, please don't get one. Socialization with dogs is a little different for pit bulls.
Socializing a puppy with other dogs may reduce the amount of dog aggression the pup will develop, and many pit puppies get along with other dogs when they are young. As the dog matures, ALWAYS be on the lookout for signs of aggression with other dogs, and be prepared to break up a spat or fight, should one happen. It is up to you, the owner, to decide whether or not to introduce your adult pit bull to other dogs. The amount of dog aggression in an adult pit bulls varies from no aggression at all to a dog that sees ANY other dog as a Happy-Meal with legs, so there are no hard and fast rules. Just remember that as the owner of a pit bull, any fight will always be your fault, no matter who started it.

More about socialization...

I feel that to the general public, socialization = allowing dogs to be off leash together. Either playing or figuring out the hierarchy themselves. This is where people get into trouble. It doesn't have to be this way at all. Being in an obedience class situation in which a dog does NOT get to 'say hi' to every dog IS socialization! We have to remember that it's not normal for adult dogs to come together and play, be friends and interact. This goes against dog behavior. (Especially pit bull behavior!)

I feel the definition of 'socialize' needs to be readdressed. I know that my dogs are wonderfully socialized because they can be with me around other dogs and not freak out. I would never force my guys to be what they are not. They will never be Golden Retrievers! I would never force my guys to interact with another dog which is ill mannered or foul tempered. That's breaking the trust factor. I'm the leader and protector in my family. My guys trust me because I would never put them into a situation in which harm would come to them. There's where the parenting skills come into play.

When an owner allows their dog to 'work it out' on it's own in a dog park, lack of trust is inevitable. That poor dog is out there all alone with no one to protect it. Scary stuff! They have to learn pretty quickly to protect themselves at all costs. They know that no one will come to save them if something does happen. These are the same owners who ask me, "But, why doesn't he listen to me?" Well, it's pretty obvious! That poor dog is living in a house full of people and still has no one to trust and believe in. No
one to look up to. No one to make those hard desicions in life. They have no 'pack' to watch out for them. I feel that's very sad. (Also, have you ever wondered why dogs 'gang up' when at the dog park? They're finally able to have that pack feeling of safety that they don't get at home.)

My definition of 'well socialized' is...The dog being able to be with me in what the dog deems to be scary situations or around other dogs and not have a panic attack. (Notice I didn't say off leash with other dogs!)


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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:28 pm

just wanted to get your views on this????
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by slattery9104 on Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:37 pm

personally i think that no matter how well any dog is trained pit or not if the other dog attacks natural instinct in the animal world is fight or flight and as any one who owens or wants to own a pitbull should know... pits dont run... i let my lad gsd mix off lead in the fields and she's great with other dogs i let her off in a forrest near me but even tho she's great with other dogs and never had an incident i stil call her when i see another dog weather its a jack russell or rottie as i have no way of knowing how well trained the other dog is... with a pit you have to be extra carefull as with the breed comes the stigma attached to the dogs... i think your dog should be socialised with others as a puppy and only let off leash with them in a controled invorinment where any scuffels can be sorted instantly... other then that i would let any dog i own be it pit or not even if its very well trained off lead with dogs that they dont know and or in a place where it would be hard to break up a disagreement
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by pitties rule on Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:38 pm

never been to a dog park in my life....

i had daisy and vito out the other day and a teenage boy was sitting on a wall with a adult dog and it start barking... i jumped, lia jumped and poor daisy ran under my legs... it was an experience for me and her... maybe if i hadnt of jumped she wouldnt have reacted like that... vito was as cool as a cucumber... there very curious when they see new dogs and want to sniff, sus them out but alot of the owners pull there dogs to there side and keep walking... how can you socailize your dog with other dogs when ppl do things like that... they are very good around other dogs and have never shown any signs of aggression

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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by YENALED on Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:56 am

I have a question and the reason I am asking is I'm not 100% sure my answer is yes. Say for e.g a local dog park decided to give everyone a turn and allowed breeds on the 'List' Pits, dobes, Rotties etc a few hours a week in the park. You turned up and found 3 pit bulls running around would you let your dog off the lead and join in? I am sure you would weigh things up and maybe have a chat with the owners to find out a bit of background first. But what if you decided to let your dog off and 5 mins later another pit bull and Rottie turned up what would you do then?

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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by slattery9104 on Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:06 am

i agree with jules for once, thats as i said why i let my dog off when theres no other dogs around unless she knows the other dogs well, soon as i see a dog close i put on her lead she never pays them any attention anyway and soon as wer a good bit ahead she is left off again, its pointless anyway she never leavs 5 foot from my side lol
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by Guest on Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:54 am

No never been to a dog park ever. Id only let mine off when there's no person ( because boots likes to meet knew people and he would prob give them a fright) and no other dogs only dogs thats they know. But even with the dogs they know im always wary that a fight could break out.
Boots doesnt run off he just stays beside the OH socks likes to get a good run and so do the girls .

I dont think id go to a dog park if they did let the 'list' dogs run around. You dont know how them other dogs are. If they are well socialized. Some dogs just take a notion not to like say big black dogs or big fluffy dogs. Id rather stick with the dogs i know :)

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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by eamo s on Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:24 pm

Dog parks can be dangerous, not everyone has the experience to handle their dogs. If a scuffle did break out, its a hard question because you have to weigh up the health and saftey issues. Will there be small children there etc... Alot of strange dogs together too, so you are almost certain a fight will break out, it doesnt matter what breed it is. They all bite and can do damage. I wouldnt feel comfortable with my dog with other dogs that may not be socialised properly. As for the same breeds together is a joke in my mind. If all the dogs attending such venue, where socialised and not too rough with other dogs . I dont see why not, as for the Pitbull kicking some back, is a myth I had to mind a 75 pound Pitbull a stunning dog, but he was a big baby, a cat would whip him. I do agree is if a pitbull does attack, thats when your in trouble. You can hit a Dobe, Shepherd or any other big breed hard enough on the back of the neck, they will run off. But a Pitbull wont back down. Thats just my opinion on these parks, you just have to think ahead with this type of dog..
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:11 pm

just a little story about socialized dogs and dogs that have knowing each other for life, i had a bit of a scuffle here at the weekend with butch and molly, they have grown up with each other and as you all know molly is butches daughter, im shearing this story because i don't blame my dogs or their breed as it can happen with any breed, i don't think i have failed or think it should be kept hush hush, i think we all need to learn from it i put it down to experience passing it on and gaining more knowledge. all my dogs live in doors, they eat sleep and do everything together etc, i put a lot of work into my dogs and they live very happily together 99% of the time but i never ever let my guard down or underestimate them for 1 minute no matter how much i know them, eamo and myself were just back from classes having a bite to eat at the table, this is normal for my dogs in all the years i have had them, as were eating both molly and butch are under the table, i hear the growl and then the strike, just as well we both are experienced enough to break it up before anything serious happened, molly had a few scratches on her leg butch on his face nothing nasty but i have no doubt in my mind at all they would have went hell for leather regardless of how long they know each other etc, eamo took butch and i lifted molly out of the room put her in the sitting room to calm down done the same with butch and at all times keeping the cool, when they calmed down i let them back together and changed environment to the sitting room, they licked each other and all is back to being good now,

i think all your comments are spot on and if owners where to keep these things in mind it would do them and the breed the world of good, my thoughts on this are just the same as all yours, to be honest even if each and every dog in a park is very well socialized i still wouldn't give my dogs a free run of things, yes because of their breed for many reasons.. 1 we can't fault them for being bred for animal combat and they are good at what they have being bred for as we have choose this breed we should be well aware of these traits, more than likely if something happens they will not come out the worst of the situation between 2 dogs or more, just as Jules asked if there was more than 1 pit bull there even more the reason you should stay away, try break up a scuffle between a pit and other breed is hard enough if you don't have the knowledge to do so but if the 2 bully's get into a scuffle believe me its hard and even worse if the other party involved starts to panic your in big trouble. in my opinion pit bulls and parks just don't match unless you are full aware of all the things mentioned above, if you don't believe your pitty will not fight back then i think then that owner should not have 1, if any1 is to gain something from this post id like it to be that other dogs can provoke and your dog 99% of the time will not back down, nobody can ever be sure that another dog won't start something and its just a natural reaction to retaliate regardless of breed, my motto is prevention is the best cure and should always be in the mind of people that choose to own these breeds.
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by eamo s on Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:37 pm

Lilly what a great post, as you mentioned about two Pitbulls having a go at each other. Even some highly experienced dog men can have difficulty separating them, without causing any more damage. Dogs dont feel guilty when they have a fight, even if its a couple of dogs living together since they where born. They dont hold grudges as some people might think, as i mentioned that 70lb Whitley bred Pitbull. Im sure he would attack if his life depended on it, but what i seen that day. A dog half the size of him went straight for him. He ran off yelping like a little pup, even though he could have crushed the other dog. He didnt, but personally if it was my dog, i just wouldnt take that risk. Theres Lillys dogs Butch is realy confident and dominant, theres Molly the total opposite. Provoked enough, all hell would have breaking lose if a less experienced person was there. They would have panicked which is quiet a normal reaction. Theres Sasha, growls at Butch but he tolerates her, even though he could severely injure her. All i can say is fairplay Lilly, if that was me. I'd have them all in separate pens, it does take alot of work, psychically and mentaly. They need alot of exercise to burn up that frustration inside them. cheers
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by pitties rule on Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:56 pm

defo does happen... like family members have there tiffs too but the diffrence is with dogs as eamo said they dont hold grudges... they just move on and forget about it... pits really do need a firm hand(dont mean hitting them).... im sure when mine getting older ill have the same problem... im constantly on there backs.... they get away with nothing... its really hard work... everything in my house is NO, HEY HEY or SSSHHHH... poor baby is gonna think he is a dog coz he gets all that too...lol
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by Clara the vet on Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:08 pm

This is such a hard one for me cause I take Cine to the dog park and have even gotten the wink wink nod nod from the park warden,her best friend is a little black staffie and so far everyone we have met has been so so nice and all the dogs well behaved and all play very well but now as shes getting bigger and stronger I have had it in the back of my mind wether its a good idea or not?
As ye all saw at the last walk all she wants is to play with other dogs and even when shes nipped or growled at she just straight away goes into submissive mode so you would think she would be fine as she is obviously submissive but i dont want to keep doing what im doing and then one day she comes across an even more submissive dog than her and she may pounce,i mean i just dont know.
its so difficult as she has never even so much as hinted at going for another dog but most articles on the breed say that the dog agression comes with age but then when you look at Cesar Milans pack with something like 8 pitbulls all off leash and no fighting it really confuses me ( then again that could just be good editing!!!!)
I want her to be well socialised and have fun but i dont want her to listen to her instincts and maybe have a fight one day and have to be put down as thats my fault not hers!!
AAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so confusing!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by slattery9104 on Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:28 pm

cesar came to my mind too as you always see daddy off leash, what you dont see except in the episode with trinity the pitbull is that theres about 15 people standing behind the camra to help, trininy the pit attacked twice each time on one of cesars pit bulls one faught back and when seperaed they were in the same pen next to each other not a problem, she also attacked daddy who turned to snap back at her and its easly seen as its played in slow motion... my point is even the most placid of dogs will defent themselfs its nature... the best cure for anything is prevention... your dog can be very social with out been off lead... there is a time and place where they can be off lead with other dogs and the more time and training you put into your pitbull the less likely a scuffel will break out but unfortunatly by owning this breed of dogs we need to accept the fact that they are animals and although show us undevoided love and affection they are dogs bread for fighting so have power to do damage while defending themselves
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by pitties rule on Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:11 pm

we had a thing a few yrs back.... soze was out playing with three boxers... owner was there with them... he has played with these dogs lots of times before... but this day for what ever reason the boxers turned on soze and start attacking him... he didnt react to start with but then one of the dogs took a chunk out of his ear... in a split second he had bit one of them in the chest(wasnt bad just a scratch)... the owner of the boxers didnt know wot to do... couldnt say sorry enough... said it was his dogs that started it... it can happen so easily and u really do have to be on the ball to break it up... so i avoid places where there are packs of dogs as they are going to back each other up but the pit would still prob get the blame
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:38 pm

Clara the vet wrote:This is such a hard one for me cause I take Cine to the dog park and have even gotten the wink wink nod nod from the park warden,her best friend is a little black staffie and so far everyone we have met has been so so nice and all the dogs well behaved and all play very well but now as shes getting bigger and stronger I have had it in the back of my mind wether its a good idea or not?
As ye all saw at the last walk all she wants is to play with other dogs and even when shes nipped or growled at she just straight away goes into submissive mode so you would think she would be fine as she is obviously submissive but i dont want to keep doing what im doing and then one day she comes across an even more submissive dog than her and she may pounce,i mean i just dont know.
its so difficult as she has never even so much as hinted at going for another dog but most articles on the breed say that the dog agression comes with age but then when you look at Cesar's pack with something like 8 pitbulls all off leash and no fighting it really confuses me ( then again that could just be good editing!!!!)
I want her to be well socialized and have fun but i don't want her to listen to her instincts and maybe have a fight one day and have to be put down as thats my fault not hers!!
AAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so confusing!!!!!!!!!!!

Clara i say this with all due respect, yes we can look at Cesar's pack but lets remember we are not Cesar and yes fights do happen at Cesar's place too, its excepted there because Cesar and his workers understand that these things happen, we don't see all footage as we only see episodes im sure as a 24/7 job there's a lot of work put into his rescue, what we need to understand is that we can have a well behaved socialized pit bull but we can never be 100% sure a dog fight won't happen at some stage in their life like any breed and 9 times out of 10 they didn't start it, what were trying to explain here is that we have to be the 1s that make the choice of what situations we put our dogs into that's really the bottom line, i see you mentioned you don't want her to listen to her instincts and maybe have a fight one day and have to be put down as that's your fault not hers, my answer to that would be we can't make dogs human and they will go with their instincts as it is natural for them just like us, i also wouldn't be putting my dog down if they were to get into a fight as every dog will have 1 or scuffle at some stage in their life its mother nature, what we need to do is make the Right decisions for them at all times and be careful and aware of the level of play and what dogs they play with, im happy with my dogs being civil around other dogs but im always careful of other dogs and their behavior with mine, even though pit bulls are just a dog the thing is not letting the pit bull surface, keeping them drained from energy and working them mentally and physically helps a lot, an over excited pit bull is not good to bring to any park or group of dogs as they are all in the same frame of mind this is why and how fights break out. its like lets say bringing a collie into a farm where there is lots of sheep and not expecting him/her to heard. each and every breed is bred for a specific purpose, we should not fault the bully breeds for what they have being bred for but rather be aware of it.
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by Clara the vet on Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:16 pm

i guess i didnt explain myself properly Laughing
what i meant was i dont want my bad decision to let her play result in her getting into a bad fight and hurting another dog cause that would be my fault as she is just replying to instinct.
i guess im being selfish maybe in a way by wanting to let her off leash and play as it makes me happy at the same time whereas now shes getting bigger and stronger i should be taking more of a public responsibility and personal responsibility towards cine and keeping her on a leash.
it just breaks my heart as i know she needs to be socialised and she loves it but as everyone has said here already this is the breed we choose,i guess i need to find new creative ways to replace play with something else like lily has said...hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by pitties rule on Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:34 pm

i suppose im lucky in regards i can let mine of leash... i found land lads used for cars and there is never anyone around when im there... i know where your coming from it breaks my heart to, to see so many pits leashed but its our reponsiblity to keep our dogs safe. mine are always on leash when ppl are around and im gonna introduce the muzzle to them now there that bit older
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:34 pm

Clara the vet wrote:i guess i didnt explain myself properly Laughing
what i meant was i dont want my bad decision to let her play result in her getting into a bad fight and hurting another dog cause that would be my fault as she is just replying to instinct.
i guess im being selfish maybe in a way by wanting to let her off leash and play as it makes me happy at the same time whereas now shes getting bigger and stronger i should be taking more of a public responsibility and personal responsibility towards cine and keeping her on a leash.
it just breaks my heart as i know she needs to be socialised and she loves it but as everyone has said here already this is the breed we choose,i guess i need to find new creative ways to replace play with something else like lily has said...hhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm

lol hun im not saying you can't or don't let her socialize im just saying we have to be on the ball at all times when doing so, if you see even the hint that a dog in your company is starting to be a little challenging then that's when to take action, its a hard 1 and all we want is best for our dogs and to have them play just like others too, but unfortunately its not me that makes the rules and how these breeds have being bred, yes there is a minority of pit bulls i know that would run from a small dog but would stand their ground to a bigger dog, i can only pass on my experiences and try advise and help people, i cant tell people what to do with their own dogs just provide some important information thats all.
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:24 pm

A Day At The Park

He is just like other dogs I would always say; He loves to go to
the dog park to play every day

Everyone loves him there, so it's ok; My dog won't fight--he
wasn't raised that way

But then one day, right before dark, A troubled young man
came into the park

He had by his side the biggest dog I'd ever seen, And
unfortunately for us, both were quite mean

We asked very nicely if they would just go; The dog answered
with a snarl and the man with a harsh "NO!"

Well his dog was a terror, threatening to all; Then he started a
fight with a Lab over a ball

They fought pretty hard and the man would not intervene;
Then here comes my dog and pushes right in between

He grabbed that big dog and thrashed him around; And with
one quick jerk threw him down on the ground

The Lab was able to escape; I heard everyone cheer; But my
dog was now in a frenzy and would not let me near

When he finally let go, what I saw stopped my heart; That big
mean dog had been torn apart

The authorities were called, the big dog was now dead; But
they didn't take the big dog; they took my dog instead

We all tried to explain that my dog saved the day; But because
of his breed he was taken away

You see my dog was a Pitbull and they don't get any breaks;
One small incident is all that it takes

A dog had died; And though he hadn't started the fight, My dog
was held responsible for what happened that night

He was deemed a danger to all and sentenced to death; And I
hold him now as he takes his last breath

It's my fault that my dog is being killed today; Please listen for
a moment to what I am going to say

Everyone warned me about his potential to fight; I said it won't
happen, I am raising him right

And now my dog is paying the ultimate price; Because I was
stubborn and wouldn't take the advice

He only did what he was bred to do; Learn from our story;
don't let it happen to you.
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by YENALED on Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:35 pm

Oh Lilly where did ya find that? It has stopped me in my tracks I am glued to my chair. It is a sad tale but it is fear that has me like this. Remember all the discussions we had over muzzles, walking dogs in public without them, you just never know what could happen. People ask why Pit bulls have to be muzzled my answer is always "because its the law and just as important to keep him safe".

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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by pitties rule on Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:58 pm

awwww such a sad poem but so very true.... hope ppl heed the advice givin in it or that could be there dog... as the saying goes never trust a pitbull not to fight... just wish ppl would be more aware of this

not targeting anybody just saying in general
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:43 pm

i certainly don't want people reading this to think we are making the pit bull out to be some kind of monster but rather take this information in that is much needed when owning this breed to enjoy it is to understand it, they are just a dog breed that needs that extra care and knowledge when owning them, i just feel with the rite guidance and education we can avoid these kind of things happening, i also want to emphasize that 9 times out of 10 the pit bull is not the dog that starts the fight but will come out the better at the end, Being protective doesn't make you a mean owner, but when a breed such as the pit bull has a greater instinct to fight back than others (even if that's never exercised) in the event a problem occurs the result is very likely to end like in that poem. i believe all dogs need to be socialized specially this breed but to a certain extent IE as a puppy to starting adulthood, socializing doesn't have to end here we just need to cut down on the amount of freedom we give when they are at a stage they could do damage if provoked by another dog, there comes a stage when they mature and become very strong dogs etc, i believe this is the time to take the necessary precautions while around other dogs.
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by pitties rule on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:10 pm

very good point lilly about the puppy to starting adulthood... they are getting strong at this stage and even stronger when an adult... socializing it great when there young gets them used to seeing and being around dogs but defo need to take the precautions at any stage really... its coz we love our dogs so much we do this... in a blink of an eye all hell could break loose and thats wot we want to avoid.
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by celticpitbulls on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:20 pm

well said and thanks, all we want to do is keep our pets and other pets safe, we want to enjoy our dogs and there is nothing stopping us as long as we keep to the dos and don't s. its hard as new owners of the breed to take this in, all we see is beautiful little puppy's that we love very deeply, but there is things we have to keep in mind no matter how cute they are we have to make the rite decisions for them at all times. if this info is just 1 thing people take in they won't see harm come to their dogs or to others. Wink
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

Post by pitties rule on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:41 pm

best advice that a pitbull owner should know... im sure lots already do... prevention is better than cure
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Re: DOG PARKS????????????

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